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Using set theory, I can prove that, in that proverbial village with a resident barber, that barber can shave those and only those men in the village who do not shave themselves if and only if that barber is not a man. Can something similar to this be proven in FOL (edit: using predicate logic without set theory)?

In set theory, I have proven:

$\forall V, b, M: [b\in V \land M\subset V \implies [\exists S: \forall x\in M: [(b,x)\in S \iff (x,x)\notin S] \iff b\notin M]]$

where

$V=$ the set of villagers

$M=$ the set of men in the village

$b=$ the barber

$S=$ the shave relation, $(b,x)\in S$ means $b$ shaves $x$

See full text of formal proof


EDIT

Is it possible, for example, to prove:

$\forall b: [V(b) \land \forall x:[M(x) \implies V(x)] $

$\implies [\forall x: [M(x)\implies [S(b,x)\iff \neg S(x,x)]] \iff \neg M(b)]] $

It is easy to prove (changing the biconditional to a conditional):

$\forall b: [V(b) \land \forall x:[M(x) \implies V(x)] $

$\implies [\forall x: [M(x)\implies [S(b,x)\iff \neg S(x,x)]] \implies \neg M(b)]] $

The problem seems to be in proving the converse:

$\forall b: [V(b) \land \forall x:[M(x) \implies V(x)]$

$ \implies [\neg M(b)\implies\forall x: [M(x)\implies [S(b,x)\iff \neg S(x,x)]] ]] $

I don't think this is true in general, e.g. if one man in the village is never shaved.

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    Why do you say "$\exists S$"? That is problematic from a FOL point of view.2017-01-07
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    In FOL we canot quantify predicates, like $S$. The corrisponding formula must be something like (limiting to the consequent) : $\forall x \ (M(x) \to [(S(b,x) \leftrightarrow \lnot S(b,x)) \leftrightarrow \lnot M(b)])$.2017-01-07
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    @PedroSánchezTerraf Agreed. Is there no way to prove in FOL what I said in words?2017-01-07
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    $V=$ the set of villagers; $M=$ the set of men in the village and $M \subset V$; this means that $M$ is the set of male villagers ?2017-01-07
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    @MauroALLEGRANZA Correct.2017-01-07
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    Actually what you said in words can be put this way: $$ V(b) \land M\subset V \implies [\forall x : M(x) \implies (S(b,x) \iff \neg S(x,x))] \implies \neg M(b)] $$ where I'm using $M\subset V$ as an abbreviation2017-01-07
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    Note that as here as in the answer below, you don't get the last $\iff$. There you need to quantify over $S$.2017-01-07
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    @PedroSánchezTerraf That l last conditional should be a biconditional. That's the hard part!2017-01-07
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    Yes, I noted, but then it is not nicely spelled as what you wrote.2017-01-07
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    @PedroSánchezTerraf I wrote, "... if and only if that barber is not a man."2017-01-07
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    @DanChristensen Why do you not consider the formulation of the statement *in the language of set theory* to be first-order? Remember that ZFC is a first-order theory.2017-01-07
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    @NoahSchweber I don't.2017-01-07
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    @DanChristensen That's not an answer to my question: I asked **why don't you**?2017-01-07
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    @NoahSchweber Sorry, I misread. Now I don't understand the question.2017-01-07
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    @DanChristensen The sentence you've written is a sentence in the language of set theory, $\{\in\}$. That's a first-order language! And ZFC is a first-order theory which proves it! So you *already have* expressed the Barber Theorem as a first-order sentence, just not in the restricted language $\{M, b\}$ (which really is *overly* restrictive - the Barber Theorem is a theorem about *sets*, so we should expect to state it in the language of *set theory*).2017-01-07
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    @NoahSchweber I pretty sure you can prove this in ZFC. The only set theory axioms I invoke are to construct the Cartesian product $V^2$ and select from it a subset $S$ (a shaving relation that satisfies the required condition).2017-01-07
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    @DanChristensen Yes, you can indeed prove it in ZFC (and indeed much less); I did say that you could, both in my comment above and in my answer! So my question is, *given that ZFC is first-order*, why is this not a satisfactory answer to your question?2017-01-07
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    @NoahSchweber There is more to ZFC than just FOL.2017-01-07
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    @DanChristensen What exactly do you mean? Are you talking about the axioms?2017-01-07
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    @NoahSchweber The axioms for ZFC are not included in FOL, nor are they theorems of FOL.2017-01-07
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    @DanChristensen Ah, now I understand. In that case, the right formulation of the Barber Theorem in first-order logic has the form "$T\implies B$," where "$B$" is the Barber Theorem expressed naturally in the language $\{\in\}$, and $T$ is the conjunction of finitely many ZFC-axioms. This will be a validity in first-order logic. And we can't hope for $B$ itself to be a validity: consider an $\{\in\}$-structure where there are no binary relations at all!2017-01-07
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    @NoahSchweber Not sure your meaning. Can the above informally stated theorem be formalized and proven in FOL (without set theory) or not?2017-01-07
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    @DanChristensen It can be *stated* in first-order logic in the language $\{\in\}$, but it cannot be *proved* from no axioms, because I've described a structure in the language $\{\in\}$ where it is not true!2017-01-07
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    (cont'd) What *can* be stated and proved is the modified version I described in my previous comment: basically, a sentence saying "If these things called "sets" behave in the following really basic ways, *then* [statement about barbers]." That is a first-order sentence, in the language $\{\in\}$, which is a validity. However, whether or not that is an appropriate formalization of the Barber Theorem is not clear. I would argue that it is, because natural-language claims about sets implicitly contain statements about how sets **behave**, and these need to be part of their formalizations.(cont'd)2017-01-07
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    You might reasonably disagree with me on this. But it's all going to come down to exactly what you consider to be an appropriate formalization of the Barber Theorem: there are two natural expressions of it, and one of them is a first-order validity and the other isn't; and if you don't accept the valid one because you don't want hypotheses about sets brought into the statement itself, then the answer to your question is "no."2017-01-07
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    @DanChristensen By the way, see the edit to my answer: we can distinguish between the "paradox" direction and the "resolution" direction of the BT. The paradox direction is a validity - no axioms needed - while the resolution direction does indeed require some axioms.2017-01-07
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    For sure I'm misinterpreting... but I do not see how someone can prove $∃S∀x[(b,x)∈S↔(b,x)∉S]$.2017-01-07
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    @MauroALLEGRANZA I think that's a typo - it should be "$...\iff (x, x)\not\in S$"2017-01-07
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    @MauroALLEGRANZA You can see the full proof at sci.logic https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=sci.logic/0-gZ64sDiwM/Usxk-y42AAAJ2017-01-07
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    @DanChristensen Mauro is correct though - you have a typo (it should be "every man who does not shave *himself*," not "every man who *the barber* does not shave") . . .2017-01-08
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    See line 25 of your proof: it seems to me that $b$ is a variable and $barber$ is a constant... So how in line 81 you quantify $barber$ ?2017-01-08
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    @MauroALLEGRANZA I'm not sure how you would formally distinguish variables and constants, but $barber$ is a free variables in the initial premise on line 1. So are $v$ and $m$. On line 81, I am generalizing on each of these variables.2017-01-08
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    If so, what about the def of $S$ in line 23 : $(a,b) \in S \Leftrightarrow (a,b) \in V \times V \land [a=barber \land b \in M]]$ ?2017-01-08
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    In line 23 you have both $b$ and $barber$; I assume that they are not the same... $b$ is not free, because the set-forming operator $\{ (a,b) \mid \ldots \}$ acts as a quantifier. Thus $barber$ is another term; if it is a free variable assumed in the premise $\lnot barber \in M$, when in the specifying condition for $S$ uou are writing $a=barber$ what are you meaning ? Simply $\lnot a \in M$ ? But I think that my proof below still works with $barber$ as a free var...2017-01-08
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    @MauroALLEGRANZA Yes, on line 23, $b$ and $barber$ are not the same thing.2017-01-08
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    @MauroALLEGRANZA I see why you are confused. My usage of $b$ in the above stated theorem differs from that at the link I provided.2017-01-08

3 Answers 3

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As usual, things hinge on exactly what it is you are trying to do.

One possibility is to - as you do initially? - convert the Barber Theorem to a statement in the first-order language of set theory. It is then easily provable, from the ZFC axioms or indeed vastly less. Indeed, this is the natural thing to do: the Barber Theorem is a statement about sets, so we should expect to formalize and prove it in first-order set theory.

Alright, now what about those pesky axioms? We have a first-order sentence $\beta$ in the language of set theory, which is provable from ZFC; is it a validity? It turns out the answer (unsurprisingly) is no. For example, there are $\{\in\}$-structures which satisfy "there are no nontrivial binary relations at all"! In such a structure, obviously $\beta$ is not true.

Interestingly, it's not hard to see that the "paradox" half of the Barber Theorem - that the barber can't be a man - is a validity. So it's easy to see the "bad" side, but hard to see the "safe" side. Basically, this amounts to the fact that set existence principles tend to be nontrivial (that is, not validities), whereas the classical paradoxes - which are really set nonexistence principles - use nothing more than pure logic.

The right way to express $\beta$ as a first-order sentence which is provable from no axioms at all, is to bring the relevant axioms in as hypotheses: namely, we look at $$T\implies \beta,$$ where $T$ is a conjunction of a few of the ZFC axioms. This will then be a validity.

When you "prove the Barber Theorem with set theory," it may feel like you're proving $\beta$ from no axioms at all. But this isn't really accurate: implicitly in your proof, you're using various properties about sets. You can view them as built into the underlying logic, but that's a cheap way out: what's really going on is that you're working in a first-order "background" theory, which proves some statements about sets. You should either prove $\beta$ from the axioms of that theory, or instead bring the relevant axioms in as hypotheses.

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    I like the discussion of paradoxes as *nonexistence* arguments. Does the Barber paradox teach us an interesting lesson also in the other direction (what the axioms should let us do, instead of what they should forbid)?2017-01-07
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With $M(x)$ meaning $x$ is a man, and $S(x,y)$ meaning $y$ shaves $x$, we have: $$\forall y \,. [\forall x \,. M(x) \rightarrow (S(x,y) \leftrightarrow \neg S(x,x))] \rightarrow \neg M(y) \enspace, $$ whose validity is easily proved (regardless of the intended interpretation).

On to the proof. To prove validity, we want to show that the negation of our sentence is unsatisfiable. That is, that

$$\exists y \,. [\forall x \,. M(x) \rightarrow (S(x,y) \leftrightarrow \neg S(x,x))] \wedge M(y) $$

is unsatisfiable. We instantiate the existential quantifier with a fresh constant symbol $b$ (as in barber):

$$[\forall x \,. M(x) \rightarrow (S(x,b) \leftrightarrow \neg S(x,x))] \wedge M(b) \enspace. $$

Now we instantiate the universal quantifier with $b$:

$$[M(b) \rightarrow (S(b,b) \leftrightarrow \neg S(b,b))] \wedge M(b) \enspace. $$

This is clearly contradictory.

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    That last conditional should be a biconditional. And how to prove it?2017-01-07
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    @MauroALLEGRANZA. Fixed the bracketing. See if you like it now.2017-01-07
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    @DanChristensen See if you like it now. An easy way to prove is a semantic tableau. I'll add the proof to my post.2017-01-07
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    You will need to prove the biconditional "$\cdots \iff \neg M(y)$."2017-01-07
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    Suppose $\neg M(b)$. How do you prove $\forall x: [M(x)\implies [S(x,b)\iff \neg S(x,x)]]$?2017-01-07
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    Using set theory, you can formally construct a relation that will satisfy this condition. I don't see how to prove it in FOL.2017-01-07
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    @DanChristensen To say that $P(y)$ *may* hold if and only if $Q(y)$ is tantamount to saying that $P(y)$ implies $Q(y)$. It is certainly not the case that every villager who is not a man shaves every man who doesn't shave himself.2017-01-07
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    @MauroALLEGRANZA Got it. Thanks. I guess there's a trade-off between better showing the contradiction and staying closer to the original statement.2017-01-07
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    @FabioSomenzi I was not suggesting that. Informally, the $S$ relation that I constructed in my proof was such that only the barber (a non-male resident) shaves anyone, and she shaves every man in the village. She does not shave herself. Formally: $\forall x,y: [(x,y)\in S \iff (x,y)\in V^2 \land x=b \land y\in M]$.2017-01-07
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    @DanChristensen Your formula asserts that there is a shaving relation for all and only the non-male villagers (but shouldn't it be $(x,x) \not\in S$?). My formula states that if a villager shaves every man who doesn't shave himself, that villager is not a man. Which approach do you prefer to formalize the "barber must be a woman" argument? I prefer the one I presented above. A variant of that validity proof shows that $\neg \exists y \,. \forall x \,.(x \in y) \leftrightarrow (x \not\in x)$. If you interpret $\in$ as set membership, the connection to the barber's paradox is apparent.2017-01-07
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    @DanChristensen Continuing, the fact that $\neg \exists y \,. \forall x \,. (x \in y) \leftrightarrow (x \not\in x)$ is a first-order validity alerts us to the fact that the accepting the principle of unrestricted comprehension leads to an unsound first-order theory.2017-01-07
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    The relation S that I describe in my previous comment may be only of many possibilities, but all you need is one for an existence proof.2017-01-07
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    @DanChristensen Agreed, but I think at this point we are at risk of replicating the discussion on existence proofs by Noah Schweber.2017-01-07
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Assume $V$ as the universe of the interpretation and let $M \subseteq V$.

Thus, we will not use $V$ in the formulae and we'll use a predicate $M(x)$ to match the set $M$, i.e. $M(a)$ iff $a \in M$.

Let :

$S(a,b) \leftrightarrow a= \text {barber} \land M(b)$;

this is the translation of line 23): the definition of: $S= \{ (a,b) \mid a= \text {barber} \text { and } b \in M \}$.


Part 1 : from line 6) : $\text {barber} \in M$.

6) $M(\text {barber})$ --- assumed

8) $\forall a \ (M(a) \to [S(\text {barber},a) \leftrightarrow \lnot S(a,a)])$ --- assumed

9) $M(\text {barber}) \to [S(\text {barber},\text {barber}) \leftrightarrow \lnot S(\text {barber},\text {barber})])$ --- instantiating 8)

10) $S(\text {barber},\text {barber}) \leftrightarrow \lnot S(\text {barber},\text {barber})$ --- contradiction; thus, by $(\lnot \text I)$, discharging assumption 8), followed by $(\to \text I)$, discharging assumption 6):

12) $M(\text {barber}) \to \lnot \forall a \ (M(a) \to [S(\text {barber},a) \leftrightarrow \lnot S(a,a)])$


Part 2 : from line 13) : $\text {barber} \notin M$.

13) $\lnot M(\text {barber})$ --- assumed

23) $S(a,b) \leftrightarrow a= \text {barber} \land M(b)$

43) $\forall a \ [ M(a) \to \lnot S(a,a)]$ -- intuitively, if $S(a,b)$ holds only when $a= \text {barber}$ and we have assumed that $\lnot M (\text {barber})$, then when $M(a)$ we are forced to conclude that $a$ cannot be equal to $\text {barber}$ (simple derivation by contradiction).

63) $\forall a \ [ M(a) \to S(\text {barber},a)]$ -- by definition of $S$.

Using the tautological implication : $p \to q \vDash p \to (r \to q)$ we may derive respectively :

  • from 43) : 68) $M(x) \to [S(\text {barber},x) \to \lnot S(x,x)]$

  • from 63) : 72) $M(x) \to [\lnot S(x,x) \to S(\text {barber},x)]$.

Now, using the tautological implication : $(p \to q), (p \to r) \vDash p \to (r \leftrightarrow q)$, we conclude with :

75) $\forall a \ (M(a) \to [S(\text {barber},a) \leftrightarrow \lnot S(a,a)])$.

Finally, by $(\to \text I)$ from 13) and 65), discharging assumption 13):

76) $\lnot M(\text {barber}) \to \forall a \ (M(a) \to [S(\text {barber},a) \leftrightarrow \lnot S(a,a)])$.

Finally, from 12) and 76) by $(\leftrightarrow \text I)$ :

80) $\forall a \ (M(a) \to [S(\text {barber},a) \leftrightarrow \lnot S(a,a)]) \leftrightarrow \lnot M(\text {barber})$.



See Barber paradox :

A modified version of the barber paradox is phrased nearly identically to the standard paradox, but omitting a detail that allows an answer to escape the paradox entirely. For example, the puzzle can be stated as occurring in a small town whose barber claims: I shave all and only the men in our town who do not shave themselves. This version identifies the sex of the clients, but omits the sex of the barber, so a simple solution is that the barber is a woman. The barber's claim applies to only "men in our town," so there is no paradox if the barber is a woman. Such a variation is not considered to be a paradox at all: the true barber paradox requires the contradiction arising from the situation where the barber's claim applies to himself.

The "original" version of the paradox is expressed in FOL as :

$(\exists x) \ [{\text{man}}(x)\wedge (\forall y)({\text{man}}(y)\rightarrow ({\text{shaves}}(x,y)\leftrightarrow \neg {\text{shaves}}(y,y)))]$.

In this form, the predicate $\text{man}$ must be read as "human" and not as "male", and thus we cannot assume that $(\exists x) \ \lnot {\text{man}}(x)$.

In the modified (non-paradoxical) version, we assume that the "universe" $U$ is made of "men" and "women"; i.e. $W=U \setminus M$ and thus, assuming $x \notin M$ is equivalent to say : $x \in W$.

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    Recall that I said, "...if and only if that barber is not a man." What about the converse? As far as I can tell, it doesn't seem possible using only FOL without set theory.2017-01-07
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    I believe you are misinterpreting the "other side" - it's the statement that if the barber is a woman, then *a shaving relation **exists*** which has the appropriate properties. This certainly isn't the same as saying "If the barber is a woman, then there are no men."2017-01-07
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    Recall that you are trying prove something like $\forall b: [V(b) \land \forall x:[M(x)\implies V(x)] \implies [\forall x:[M(x)\implies [S(b,x) \iff \neg S(x,x)]]\iff \neg M(b)]$. There is nothing there that actually defines the relation $S$, only a condition that it must satisfy. Your line 23 is actually another premise, one that defines the relation $S$. I don't think this will work as a formal proof.2017-01-08
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    @DanChristensen - line 23) is a formula defining a binary predicate $S(a,b)$ that holds iff $M(b)$ holds and $a=barber$. Thus, $S(a,b)$ (my predicate) **iff** $(a,b) \in S$ (your set) ... Why not ?2017-01-08
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    @MauroALLEGRANZA You are adding a new assumption. At this point in your version of the proof, you are only allowed the following assumptions: $V(b), \forall x: [M(x) \implies V(x)],$ and $\neg M(x)$.2017-01-08